because he was so well known, he couldn't show up at a gas station without being recognized. as you have seen from surveillance video, it's everywhere now whether you check into a motel or get gasoline, someone has your photo and just a question of finding you. also today, just to reiterate, police were on track. they said to residents in big bear just this morning, pleasing over your surveillance video, your home surveillance video to see if you see this guy, maybe in a vehicle any time between last thursday and today. so as of earlier today, they didn't have any idea where he was and he turns upright under their nose right in the area they have been searching all along. >> neil: thank you very much. it's hard to believe this whole saga with six foot, 270 pound former policeman begin six days ago after authorities say, chris dorner took out captain's

daughter and her fiance and released a manifesto that he first posted on fb. here is where it got interest ago for state officials, very intimidating and worrying that he was declaring a warfare on all of those individuals which left the state police to do something unprecedented. assign officers to guard the more 50 families connected with those so-called targets. they are still guarding them. they are still watching him. and chris dorner is surrounded like a rat. now what? this is a fox news alert. there is breaking news in the manhunt for fugitive excop christopher corner in california. >> kimberly: we know that corner is in big bear, california, shots fired, exchanged with law

enforcement. we have news that perhaps one officer down and has been air lifted to receive medical attention. another officer also has been shot. what we don't know is if in fact this is the suspect christopher corner. however, take it back a couple of days with a last known location of this wanted fugitive, was the area of big bear, california. take it now to trace gallagher joining us from los angeles with the latest. >> hi, kim. to expound on where you are going here. we know that two officers were in fact wounded in this and one has been airlifted out of the mountains of big bear, presumably down to san bernadino, riverside county to get medical attention. to your point, yes, they know that this, in fact, is christopher corner. he is in a cabin and firing shots for the better part of 15 to 20 minutes.

there was confusion at first because they thought he made his stand in the woods. but this afternoon, he went in to the home of an elderly couple who owned a cabin in big bear and he tied them up. and then he stole their white pickupickup truck. in the chain of events the fish and game authorities came in contact with the white pickup truck and shoot-out ensued. then more forces were brought in and christopher tonor made a way to local cabin and started to shoot out authorities. now we're told he wounded two deputities. they called in tactical units and called in all hands on deck because they know how crafty he has been in five days. the scanner traffic and sources tell us they know which of the cabins that christopher corner is holed up in. this is the fox affiliate k.t.

tv. they got on the scene and they are focused on the cabin that corner is surrounded in. they have immeasurable forces up there surrounding this. they are not about to let this guy get away again. he shot three police officers, killing one. today, wounding two more deputies. unclear if they are sheriff deputies, police officers, fish and game. but two have been wounded. the plan right now apparently is if you pan out here, you would see that the sheriff deputies and swat teams are standing behind their cruisers. and their vehicles. staying out of the line of fire and they reported that shots are coming out from the cabin. to what christopher corner has for weaponry, we know he left two assault weapons, two assault weapons were inside the truck found burned out in this area. six days ago.

this is part of their arsenal he has. he has handguns and we believe he has another rifle and plenty of ammunition. i want to get to william la jeunesse who is at the l.a. police department. the lapd said when they had news they would come out and tell you. this is their guy. he is targeting their police officers. any word from lapd. what is happening at the scene where you are? >> they have not come down yet. they are monitoring an active shooter situation, trace. the last news conferences, they have given away of what they known with investigative details. as i said moments ago, this morning it seemed like they were searching for a needle in a haystack, reiterating to people in big bear, if you have surveillance video that could show this guy and the vehicle he might be in, let us know.

we do have information that why he is there. because he had a friend, the initials according to affidavit by u.s. marshal whose parents had a cabin in the area. he headed there when he couldn't go to mexico and steal a boat in san diego. maybe the car broke down or broken axle up there and that is what abandoned him in the area. the good news, he doesn't have the stuff. only what is on his body. tried to steal a vehicle. he got accosted if you will or lit up by the fish and game wardens on highway billion. he bailed out of the vehicle and he has one or two weapons he is carrying with him. whatever ammunition on his back. he broke in unfamiliar cabin. it is not his. the time is on the task force side. they can wait him out and move

in. run out of ammunition. it's in their favor as they try to close in on this guy later on. one thing i would add, lapd had a tough situation on their hands as they try to scale back the investigation if possible because they didn't know where he was. they had the cover bases here in l.a. with the protective detail. they couldn't abandon big bear. they hadn't found him yet. charlie beck said until this guy shows up, edead or alive if you will, he had to keep the protected detail on the lapd families he targeted. at this point in time, we are happy here in lapd, happy that they finally got the guy surrounded and might bring it to an end. trace? >> william la jeunesse, stand by for breaking news if you would. give people the idea of the context here. the cruisers of that, the live pictures, you can see the

cruisers on the road, roa roadside. one of the two main roads that go in and out of big bear. see the compound in the middl middle? we believe that is where he is holed up. a shoot-out at this location now, off and on for 35 minutes. william said he has only what is on him. but we learned when he conducted the home invasion that he tied up the elderly couple that he also apparently procured a weapon from them. so he may have one more weapon in his arsenal to use against police. if you are just joining us, very important to know, he has opened fire on police officers. wounding two more deputies or police officers. on top of the young couple he is suspended of killing last week. the police officer he is suspected of killing and two others he wounded. he talked about the current police chief charlie beck who

is meticulous about making sure that the information about corner i they are releasing very little unless it pertains to capturing the man. i want to bring in the former lapd police chief bill bratton. i have to get your perspective on this. we talked to lapd. they are right now sitting back and waiting. what is the police first priority in a case like this? sit and weight or is there a time they will go in? >> the first spirit going to be the public safety. that they are not going to risk lives needlessly. from the descriptions that have been coming out in the last hour, the suspect is contained in a physical environment. that makes it easier in a wooded area. safety is going to be first and foremost with time and effect on their side now.

time is more on their side if it's believed that the suspect does not have captives or hostages with him. the speculation about the fire power, stay away from that. you have no idea what he has as far as weapon power at this junkture. the end story is never going to the story as the beginning story. the lack of information, there is speculation going on. the good news is if this is corner, he is in a contained situation. this will be a matter of time. >> you know, you make a good point there. this is good advice to stay away from, how much fire power he has. the emotional element. he went after two former guys, lapd officers.

he named 4 others. he shot and kill a riverside police officer wounding another. now today in a recent shoot out, two deputies or officers shot and wounded. how emotional is this for these guys who have been searching for christopher corner for five days. they got it inside the cabin. at what point do they say he is not getting away and we are going in after him, chief? >> time is on the side of the police in this juncture. they have the opportunity now to put together a tactical and strategic plans. in the case of an active shooter, that he is, he took a win. if he does not have hostages, that need is mitigated significantly. the good news at this particular point in time it's still daylight out there and it gives them an opportunity to understand the terrain they are dealing with, with the

resources in place. the police force are well-trained in these issues. this incident began involving the lapd. the lapd is only there in an assist function. this is jurisdiction of the local police department. up in that area. they call assistants in, the primary responsibility rests with them in the jurisdiction. the lapd is not making comments at this time. this is not their operation. >> chief, let me expand on what you are saying. lapd being in a support role. we got word that lapd has two helicopters and 20 ground swat members now standing by at san bernadino airport, the closest airport to look for the word to come up and help in the case. we should point out if we can,

that chief bratton was the chief of police in the era, where christopher corner was with the los angeles police department. i know you don't recall meeting him but there is a picture circulated in the media that you met him and gave him a coin or medal previous to his dispatch to iraq or afghanistan because he is also or was also reservist in the navy. do you recall or do research in his background? was he justify fired? to charlie beck now reopening the investigation. your thoughts on that, sir? >> i have no recollection of meeting him and the photo that is on display is one that would have been taken in my office, and people were activated in the military service to meet and great them, give them one of the challenge points. as they are called. military cus custom, as token of

respect. he sent back that or one just like it. anderson cooper at cnn. in terms of the issues he raised and the manifesto and the way the department is responding to it, it's handled well and professionally. chief beck is a consummate professional and doing outstanding job in leadership of the department throughout this. >> while i've got you quickly, i want your opinion on this. we got breaking news. the helicopter pictures may go away shortly because now the sheriff department in san bernadino is asking the media and all helicopters to pull away from the scene. we saw a little bit of this last week in a hostage situation where the boy is held under ground. they don't want the tactical strategies given away. they will ask for the helicopter pictures to go away and deal with it on their own. they say gunfire is being

exchanged between law enforcement and the suspect. they don't want to put anyone in dinger or put police officers in danger. is this standard operating procedure to get the helicopters and all eyes off of what the police are doing now? >> actually, i'm surprised it has take then long to get you out of there. you are in a position to significantly impede the operation and impact the safety of the law enforcement personnel moving in on him. it is likely he has access to television on the location he is at so there is a need on law enforcement to mitigate your need to report the news getting you out of the area as far as the helicopters. looking at the video are streaming live there is potential to give him tactical advantage in defending against the assault police could be making on him.

i know it kills you to pull back from the scene you have to respect desire to be concerned with the officer safety out there. >> that makes perfect sense. we have two police officers shot today. we have had three shot in the past week. we don't want to endanger more officers' lives here. chief william bratton. chief, if you could stand by for a couple of minutes i want to get news in here. while we have the pictures up to -- okay. i understand. we graciously appreciate you standing by with us. i want to give people the lay of the land. the helicopters are pulling out here. that cabin that our fox affiliate kttv was focused in on, we believe that is the cabin that christopher corner barricaded himself inside or hidden inside and firing shots out. that was right by road.

highway 38. there are main highways in and out of big bear. highway 18 that goes in through, coming up through riverside county. highway 838 that goes down to dan bernadino county. that is where they are now. in the past six days they have been scouring the mountains with the law enforcement authorities. hundreds and ups. but on the day that christopher corner disappeared and thought to be hiding in the mountains when they found the struck, they started to scour the mountains and it started snowing. they got 14 to 16 inches. the cabin is right by the road. winter cabin. in the hills that he is thought to be, loaded with summer cabins they probably didn't get to all of them because it's our understanding that along with the fire power and limit fire power he didn't have any cold weather gear with him.

in the hills during the snowstorm. i want to bring in fox news producer jen burden on the ground for us in big bear. give us an idea. the helicopter is out. we can't get a look at what is happening on the ground. give us an idea of the police presence and your understanding of the shoot-out. >> we are kept five miles back on highway 38. a couple of highway patrol with the street blocked off. we tried to approach them and they told us to get back. they are keeping us back here. we can't see from where we are now. we are seeing unmarked vehicles, vehicles with tires on. flying by us. going through the blockade where the gun fire is going on.

we are kept five miles back for our safety. we can't see much from here. >> what are they telling you? a lot of roads are blocked off. they blocked out 18 below the shoot-out. unclear if it's blocked out in big bear. are you hearing from your end that they are allowing anyone to go on highway 18? the other main road of big bear. is this area on lockdown for the foreseeable future? >> the entire area is on lockdown. we were coming down 38, we were stopped before we got to this area ten miles back. we were only allowed through because we had press credentials. they weren't letting the public through. they are not letting people in or out in a wide area around this. >> she has been up there since the search began and can give you an idea of the flavor of

what the police department and the sheriff department has been through over the past six days. this started snowing hours after christopher corner disappeared. we are back, this is video, because the live pictures have gone away. they have asked us in deference to the police officers and their aboutty call obligation to pull away from the scene. not show where the police are, because chief bratton was pointing out you don't know if he has television inside the cabin. he could be watching us and watching the police. aiming his weaponry toward them. they want to pull out. we can assure you that the la lapd, the lapd is not involve involved. san bernadino sheriff department and riverside police arevod in this. fish and game may also be involved. they have cabin surrounded. this is only a matter of time, matter of time before they do

what they have to do. they have time on their side because christopher dorner is not going anywhere. if you go back to his manifest toe, the 21-page rant, where he said he was wrongly fired by the l.a. police department and he wanted to exact revention on 40 officer he is said in there, not quoting but loosely quoting that he would not come out of this alive. he threatened the police officers, saying i never had a chance to have a family. and now i'm planning to kill yours. in doing so, they believe that the for a get it was daughter and the fiance of the daughter, the person representing him, the lawyer representing him in the hearing that ultimately led to him being fired from the l.a. police department that he said ruined his name. i want to get back to william la jeunesse because again we heard that lapd waiting for call order.

waiting for the word. they have two helicopters in 20 swat members waiting to control up the mountain and join this. on scanner traffic they are waiting and looking for an area for another medical helicopter to land so they can get one of their injured deputies out. we believe they ferried one out and we think they are looking for another landing area to get the second police officer or the deputy flown out of that. what are you hearing from your end? >> we know that san bernadino swat is on the scene, and l.a. county is at the san bernadino airport waiting to be air lifted to the scene. two helicopters. i'm told the cabin he is in, has a large stone chimney. the kill will stop when i have justice. earlier today, inside the building behind me.

they said they would reopen the case that he claimed he was unfairly fired partially due to race. so they agreed to conduct internal review of what happened and reinterview witnesses. to allow them to speak freely and not fear retribution themselves. on the other hand, we expected to lure corner in and give him an opportunity to say listen, we will have your day in court. you can speak out and we will look at what you have to say with the allegation against the department. on the other hand, yesterday, you had a riverside county district attorney filing murder charge against special services against corner that called for or allowed for the death penalty. if you believe that this guy was in mexico or out

somewhere, who might be enticed to the idea i might clear my name and give me a fair shot. but on the other hand why bother if you are facing the death penalty. but the problem is to connect the dots. you have different information from different sources. you have an affidavit from the marrable with isolated information to force to us say what happened in between here? they put up a $1 million reward leading to his arrest and today it's up to $2 million as the l.a. county board of supervisors pitched in $100,000. that generated information, clues coming in to the task force, possible sights of

corner or friends or acquaintances to tell detectives where they thought he might be or going. according to the lapd, a lot of information -- chief beck is on the scene, i'm told by the producer. en route to the scene. sorry. here they said a lot of the information was good. some wasn't. they had to go through it periodically to see what is good and what was bad and see what panned out. the case, that the guy broke in the cabin. he left in that vehicle, that led to where he is now. >> eric: the chief, charlie beck. >> the police chief is en route to the command center on the scene there. as we talked about earlyer the reason you see a wide shot from the fox affiliate kttv of big bear and the big bear valley is the faa has just issued on behest of the police a temporary flight restrictio

restriction. that means you cannot fly over the area, you cannot fly over the shoot-out that is going on right now with christopher corner who has been on the run for seven days. and the sheriff deputy from san bernadino and riverside and waiting to go up in that area. i want to bring in kimberly guilfoyle. this is an interesting legal scenario. you have a standoff, kimberly you are from the area. legally speaking you have a standoff going on. christopher corner says he has no intention of coming out of this alive at all. he wanted to exact revenge on 40 lapd officers. we has shot five officers, hitting four and killing one. now a guy is holed up with fire power saying he is not coming out alive. is there any way they can

negotiate with him saying look, if we come out now, this might not be as bad as you this. this is a death penalty case. he knows the law and he knows he is going to death row if he gets out of this. >> if out goes to district attorney office, they would make a decision and the penalty is used in the office. he is looking at a death penalty case. he could try to see if he could negotiate for himself a life without possibility of parole. the first line of defense is save lives. they have concern for public safety. you have multiple agencies. a number of tactical units. you have to factor all of this in. they have to coordinate together to work together and decide who will take the lead. you heard from the chief it's the local sheriff office and deputies there in charge. not operation of the los angeles police department, although they do have tech

units on stand by, at the airport. the first thing is get someone in to do negotiation to try to work and compromise a safe ending to the situation so no more lives are lost. if that is not the case, they have the benefit of daylight. it's 2:26 in the afternoon. west coast time. daylight for more hours now which will benefit the officers there to get clear lines with the situation. like the chief said, pulling back, so the suspect is not able to see if they are moving in. they describe the building and having a chimney. possibility of dropping it in the area to startle and gain tactical advantage to the suspect if they decide they have to proceed and move in with deadly force. they will hold back and wait to see what they can do to put in a team and make a decision. >> time is on their side. kimberly, stand by if you would. kim said of the timing, 2:27 in the west. the sun sets around 5:30.

dark around 5:45. in the mountains. the sun sets in the west in california. mountains to the east. darker earlier up there. they have three hours, maybe more of daylight left. we know that christopher corner was throwing smoke grenades on the officers when he encountered them. on top of the weaponry, he had smoke grenades. kim, are we hearing from kttv? i want to dip in, if i can, to the local coverage of kttv, they are going wall to wall with this as well and we see if they have a different perspective on what is going on, in the shoot-out. listen. >> where they believe christopher corner is hiding out. this is a lot of what is occurring here today, old-fashioned police work of trying to focus in on the suspect.

to end this in a peaceful way. >> this is down the hill from big bear. isolated and only one road. there is only one main road in and out of here. >> it looked like -- from kevin earlier in sky fox an isolated group of structures, too. didn't look like it was any other homes nearby. this is earlier tape of sky fox. before we zoomed out wide. you can see the group of cabins in theer the. >> the ok pants you report one got loose and got authorities but he was recognized by some fish and game personnel. >> fish and game warden or deputy or a regular office they're controlled the area. >> we believe it's san ber din

know county sheriff. >> two deputies wounded. >> this is possible they were patrolling together. the idea is not out on parol alone. >> the reason with have had to widen out the shot. they brought law enforcement in the area. they believe he is located in a cabin. we are erring on the side of caution and we don't know what will transpire in the ensuing moments or hours. but right now, it would appear that we are in a standoff situation that authorities have the upper hand. they cut off access to that area. >> i'm trace gallagher live in los angeles. continuing breaking news coverage of what you see in middle of your screen. a standoff in the san bernadino mountains involving

the police officers, many of them. the man who has been on the run for a better part of a week. we believe that corner following a shoot-out, that two police officers or sheriff deputies were wounded is now holed up inside a cabin, very near highway 38. that runs out of big bear to riverside county. police officers on scene barricaded themselves behind the car. they have surrounded theca by and put up a wider perimeter around that if he got outside the initial perimeter. what they are doing right now is trying to gather a floor plan of thatca by to figure out what the lay-out is exactly. upstair, downstairs, bedrooms. what places could he be hiding? we had brat top on the phone earlier saying what police now

have benefiting them is time. it's 2:31 in the west. three hours, maybe more of daylight. and they believe in fact, dorner is inside the cabin. this is man that a week ago shot and killed, we believe, say police, a young woman and her fiance. that young woman was the daughter of the person who represented dorner during a police hearing in which he was later fired. he exacted revenge in manifesto where he named 40 lapd police officers. they found the manifesto and put out all-points bulletin and then they went looking for him. that night he came across two lapd officers. they tried to pull him over and he got out of his truck and opened fire. 15 minutes later he shot and killed a riverside police officer. shot and wounded another riverside police officer.

he then, say police, went to san diego at 3:00 and tried to commandeer a boat from the san diego harbor. he told the man he was trying to steal the boat from, to mexico. but the boat wouldn't leave because he got a rope caught around the propeller so he fled again. an hour, hour-and-a-half later they found his wallet and his badge at the border crossing between san diego and tijuana. some nine hours later they found his burned-out truck in big bear. they reason they believe they found the truck because the person on the manifesto listed as a target or acquaintance has parents who live in -- this by the way, these are the first live shots. kim, are these live? these are the first live shots on the ground right now. we had san bernadino sheriff department and riverside police and the l.a. police chief charlie beck on the way to the scene now. lapd is standing by waiting

for their orders. mark furnan the manifestos, saying the days of rampart and rodney king got no better. he was named in aassociation with that. you are looking at the police presence here. we talked to the chief bill bratton earlier about time being on the side of law enforcement authorities. do they sit and wait and follow protocol or is something inside them that says let's get it? >> guest: this is a tactical operation. tactical commander. it's done on the order of the team leader. this is done according to a plan, evacuation. figure out what the background is. make sure there are no friendlies in the area. the daylight hour is optimal

for them. one man, four walled structur structure. no cover around it. they like the tactical operation to be done in daylight hours. but it's going to be done just like it always is. the suspect if he wants to give up the spread eagle on the front of the cabin now, and ends with his life spared. if he wants to fight, he will die. >> at one point, you mention daylight, 2:34 in the west. at what point do they say they don't want it to go to darkness and goes back to event last week and they swarm the underground bunker where the guy was holding the 5-year-old boy. at what point do they decide hey, this is going to end and end right now. instead of us waiting here all night. or wait it out? my second point is we know they are getting a floor plan from the owner over the cabin

to figure out where he will be. >> you want to know where to make the entry and place the flash bangs and where to put in tear gas. how to approach it and approach the location. the plan, going back to daylight hours. anybody with common sense, do this so you don't have to do enhance visual devices. you don't want to bring in trucks, the light trucks because it creates shadows. you want it on law enforcement side, not the suspect's. this is not a rush. there is plenty of time. figuring out to make sure that there is no hostages, nobody is in -- everybody is accounted for that lives in the cabinet. not there. one set of footprint going in the cabin, none coming out. they will set up a tactical operation.

it won't go all night. is no hostage. not somebody with a 5-year-old child. they are not worried about the suspect. they want him incarcerated. >> i want to run this by you. we got a scanner traffic. this says all units do not fire unless you see something from the house. after that, the scanner traffic is we have enough officers. we need more swat members. >> right. why do you need more swat members? >> they want people there, physically prepared to make entries. they work in teams and they do this all the time and train all the time. they will safely make entry and contact suspect. if he doesn't want to give up, they will make contact and shoot the suspect if he has a weapon and doesn't want to

give up. that is the reality. he doesn't have the ability of the the swat officers. he doesn't have that training. >> yeah. mark furman, stand by if you would. this is happening live in big bear, california. 120 miles or so north of los angeles. local san bernadino mountains. this is a live picture on your left. highway patrol barricade if you will, highway, highway 38. the road that the cabin is off of, that dorner is held up inside. a number of officers who surrounded the cabin. shots have been fired. we are told that as little as

eight minutes ago, several shots have been fired. this is our fox affiliate kttv. the reason they are off of this, this faa issued what they call get out of the area. they call this get out of anything. they don't want anyone compromising the police officer position outside the house. i want to go to james usera. he is a friend of christopher corners. he was named in the manifesto. i heard you earlier in week talk about what you would tell christopher dorner if you could. he is in a tight situation. he might be watching television. he has some weapons inpseudo. surrounded by the force of southern california law. what is your advice at that

point in time? >> chris, if you are watching, give yourself up. we have don't want to see this go down in a bad way. put down with your hands up and surrender. no more good can come of this. >> if you read the manifesto, i'm sure you did. you know he said he is not coming out of this alive. he wanted lapd detect is, former and current police officers. he wanted them and their families dead. he said he never had a chance to have a family and now he was taking theirs. he wanted his name clear and he would not be alive to see his name cleared. it appear appears from the intes and purposes that he does not intend to come out of the cabin alive. if he does, he knows he is going right to jail and right to trial and death row. >> yeah. his future is bleak. there is no way around that at

this point it sounds like. this is altogether a terrible situation. >> james, i got to ask you, what was the starting minute to this? he was fired from the la police department four years ago. do you know of any event that might have expedited this behavior? do you know of anything that might have triggered this at all? is this the man that you knew back four or five years ago? >> i am completely in the dark as to what the catalyst is for this behavior. i am aware of his terminated with the lapd. he went through an grievance and appeals process that my understanding lasted until 2011. discharged. it sounds like the appeal process was ongoing thing for a few years.

but any event, i can't offer explanation or real insight to what the catalyst may have been to set him off to this point. not characteristic of the chris dorner who i am friends with and came to like and know in college. >> he had former girlfriend and wive that were interviewed who said they are not surprised. >> perhaps they saw a different side to chris than i did. my experience with chris was positive. he was a person for whom i had respect. i believe for him to be honest and intelligent guy. i have been interviewed a number of times in the past few days as well and hope is i could provide some insight to what is going on here or what caused the turn for the worst.

i am really at a loss. >> yeah. serve at a loss. mr. usera. i think everyone is looking for what it is, that turned this man. the lapd reopened the investigation. not so much to clear his name but the department. any black eye the department might get from this. in your mind's eye in the past five days, mr. usera that christopher dorner was hiding in those mountains, was he looking for a way out, do you believe? or looking to exact revenge. it looks to us at the 11th hour he was looking to get away today. >> i can't guess. i don't know better than anybody else does. i wish i could shed insight on this. or bring the situation to resolution nonviolently.

but i can't say what would bring him to the point. an appropriate course of action. i really have no clue what the motives are or what the intent is. other than what is written in the manifesto. again, i can sort of speculate along with the rest of the people but it's still, until we hear it from mr. dorner, it's mystery to me. trajidge all around. >> it is tragic all around. if we g from mr. dorner, james usera a friend of dorner and who was named in the manifesto. mr. usero, thanks very much. we want to point out that the police on the scene kept all the air traffic back. they are now waiting and they were told on the ground no shots fired unless something fires out of the building. there have been numerous shots out of the cabin.

but recently there is no shot so right now the units surrounding the cabin are holding the fire and waiting. do we have bill daily standing by? let's go to former f.b.i. investigator bill daily. i want to get your take on what is going on here. they are not firing. you know, you did some yeoman's work for us when it came to the mind set of the person who is holding the 5-year-old boy in a bunker for a week. now what is going on inside the cabin, christopher dorner, he stopped firing and he is sitting there and he knows he is surrounded. what is the next move on his behalf and on, or on his part and the police officers' behalf? >> start from the police perspective, they are trying to make sure that no civil yaps are within the range of where flying bullets may harm them.

they want to make sure the police officers are also protected, and don't have as will of life that could be involved in taking him perhaps alive. we are going to make sure that we bring in tactical unit so as they corden off the area they bring the tactical swat teams in, up and close because they provide the technology and the skill craft to be able to, if they need to, go in the cabin or provide protective barrier around the cabin, as we get toward the late afternoon out there in big bear. there are a number of things they are doing. the big thing is to make sure that as best of possible, preserve the life for the citizens and the police officers. i would imagine at some point if they, can they would try to establish communication with him. as you imagine, they have to do a technical intelligence gathering to find out is there a phone in the cabin to be activated? or just use speakers and ask

him to come out. they will come to the point once they realize and establish that there is no anyone else with him in the cabin. civilian or a potential victim they can start to make some more tactical decisions to what they will do to alleviate the situation. >> stand by if you would. this is really great information to have. >> bring in bob jacks. former swat team member. give me an idea from your perspective. you know better than we do. how long do you wait? he killed a police officer and wounded four hecht is inside, heavily armed. he has no hostage. how long before the swat team decides enough is enough we are going in to get this guy out? >> the important thing to remember is time. if he is contained in the

residents and there are no hostages, time is on the side of the law enforcement, police officers. number one. you don't want to endanger police officers by, quote/unquote, storming a house. taking additional casualties. the longer you wait, he needs leap, food, water, things of that nature. there is no rush for this. the time is on the side of police officers. >> there is a good point because you talk about having him contained. the helicopter shot had to go away, we have no live pictures that are next to the cabin or near the cabin. there are scanner reports saying that there is a possibility that dorner has come outside the cabin or is outside the cabin.

does that jive or is the only refuge inside the building? >> i can't tell because i'm not on the ground. you can only speak generally. you have can't get specific. you can't get inside on what is going on inside his head. would somebody come outside? i couldn't tell you. he may try that. time is on the police side. the commander of the swat team and the other officer in the area, they will sit down and hunkering down for a possible siege. they would start designated people to work in shifts and they don't tire everybody out at once. the law enforcement will start planning for a long time. >> planning for a long time. if you read the manifesto, mr. jackson, there is also preparation for what he wrote in there and what many said, this is a guy who wants to go down in a blaze of glory. is there preparation saying in two or three hours you will have a man to step out of the

cabin with guns blazing. thoughts? >> trace, if dorner initiate an assault they will be ready for him. but i'm saying besides police being ready for any action that dorner takes, if he charges at them they will be ready. if dorner wants to hunker down for a siege himself they have to plan for that, too. >> bob jackus, a former swat team member with the los angeles police department. thank you very much. appreciate your time. again, this is a live look from the fox affiliate kttv in the upper left-hand part of your screen. they are simply checking every vehicle that comes in and out of the big bear area. we mentioned before there are two primary roads. there is highway 18 and highway 38. every car is suspiciously waved by or at least checked,

because nobody is getting out. that he believe they have christopher dorner locked inside or barricaded inside the cabin or near to the cabi cabin. the scanner traffic is fluid at this time. we are relying on what the police give us. bring back in kimberly. we spent all week long going over what the lapd and charlie beck and while this man hunt was going on, they said we are going to reopen the investigation. this guy said he was wronged to make sure that we did it right. in your experience, i know that we have this saying in the country we do not negotiate with terrorists. do you find that odd in your law enforcement experience, kim, of doing that again? >> kimberly: no, that is the way to try to communicate through the media to the suspect, mr. dorner, because his big grievance was he felt

his voice was not heard and he was wronged by the superiors and the fellow officer; hence, the manifesto. this is a way to say wek knowledge you have a grievance and review if we made errors or mistakes. that was a good strategy. that didn't cause them any disadvantage to do so, because perhaps it makes the suspect more cooperative. result in less lives lost. this is somebody i believe, a you said, trace, given the suspect profile will want to go out in a blaze of glory or suicide by cop. he is running out of resources. diminishing resources at this time because he has a finte number of ammunition and weapons available to him. he is far outnumbered. he is contained. he has far little negotiating ability at this point, because from the information we receive, there is no civilian or hostage within based on the information we have right now in that cabin. he is a sitting duck. they are ready for him. you have the opportunity and the advantage of daylight. you have the large number of

swat and technical teams, the tactical entry teams available to come in. they will do shift work. swapping in and out so they stay fresh. and decide who, in fact, will be able to go in if they need to. what is going to be the best point of entry to perhaps make some kind of move against him. he is armed and dangerous. they are well within their legal rights, trace, to be able to go in and use the deadly force against this individual. >> i want to just jump in here, kim, if i can. we have breaking news that could be a game-changer here. the "l.a. times" is now reporting that christopher dorner may have hostages inside that cabin. again, we have been reporting this was a shoot-out between dorner and police officers. and that he ran inside the cabin for refuge. now the "l.a. times" is reporting the possibility he may have hostages inside there. i want to bring back in, former f.b.i. investigator bill daily. this changes everything. >> well, it certainly is a game changer in a sense of

perhaps some media tactics. as i mentioned before, one thing they need to do before they establish any approach to how they will handle this, by the tactical units, or negotiators is understand whether he has, you know, any hostages inside the cabin. i probably say however, you know, police, even though as kimberly pointed out would have the rightful perhaps, you know, the lawful duty or lawfully be able to take him by force, they also want to negotiate this if they can. if possible. if you want to give himself up, he wants to establish some form of communication and perhaps have that conversation to take him out alive, they want to do that. they also don't want to be seen as taking any type of revengeful steps or steps any way suggest that they are too precipitous about their decisions. in case we have hostages, certainly one of your guests said before, like a good friend of mine, head of hostage negotiations for the f.b.i. said stalling for time. time is everything in these cases. we saw last week with the

hostage situation down in alabama. the more time you have, the more time you have to prepare. the more time you have to establish a relationship. that is where they will be looking to do, if it turns in to that type of hostage situation. >> yeah. we have been basing this hour on the fact, bill -- thank you, bill daly, former f.b.i. investigator, basing this hour that dorner was inside the cabin and i side alone. if they had to want to do so arose they could go and get him. they want to go back if i can to william la jeunesse who has been at lapd headquarters all day long. now hearing the possibility that hostages might be inside. we know that l.a. swat teams were on the standby at a local airport. we know there is, there is no air traffic allowed in the area.

>> we have a press conference, and i have been told it is going forward but i have not seen the lieutenant yet. after the lepping thy shootout. this guy is basically in a standoff in the san bernadino mountains. we heard armored vehicle, we have san bernadino swat on scene and likelihood dozens of heavily armed i was aers with body armor. i have not heard about the hostage situation as you mentioned. we understand that of course, this started with a break-in. that he tied up the couple. he stole their vehicle. then he got in a chase. stopped by fish and game and that brings us where we are now. back to you. >> william la jeunesse live for us at lapd headquarters. as william was saying this started and we said it was a home invasion. he went in a home and tied up the elderly couple inside the

home. then he reportedly stole their light truck and drove away. that is when he came in contact with fish and game authorities. that's when the shoot-out ensued. >> if that is the case, do you start bringing in the negotiators like you did for the f.b.i.? not negotiators. you were investigator. do you bring them in like they did last week and start a dialogue? what is the next step? >> if there are hostages involved, even without them, they try to finish this peacefully, but if there is hostages they have to establish communication.

we don't know if there are phones. they have to be activated remotely. they have to bring in professionals to work to get back to people safely and get them out. time is on the authorities' side. even if he does have hostages they will move quickly and efficiently. they realize the longer they have time, the more chance they have to establish communication dialogue with him and understand what the dynamics are of the situation at hand. physical lay-out of the buil building. put swat and tactical people in position and go from there. we could look at if there are hostages there, a long period of time before it's resolved. >> bill daly, thank you. we have not confirmed